What has happened to the English language? Where did it go? Why does nobody even know how to use it?

lose...
the opposite of win or misplace something.

loose...
the opposite of tight.

Can we stop molesting the apostrophe?
Please?
I'm asking.
It's not the better half of every 's' used in every word to glue the s to the end. It doesn't make words plural either. Some words actually have plural forms. See, just like that; forms. That's all. There's no apostrophe.

Was America asleep in 3rd grade?

Bah...
...vent abruptly cut short...



Bah...

well perhaps. but if you look at the progression of "english" throughout history, you'll see that its always been in a state of both growth and flux.

much like a living thing.

cheers
Nigel.

With all due respect Nigel, we have bastardized the English language.

When people use:
are when they mean our
they're, their, there and have no idea which is which
"put fax's here" instead of faxes
[any freakin word]'s to show plural

it's far from growth and evolution of the language. Having the word "doh" (from the Simpsons) added to the dictionary is growth and flux. What I see in my white-collar job coming from people like the General Manager and countless VPs is pathetic.

I just want to buy everybody a dictionary and book on grammar like the one I used in 3rd grade.

Yeah, call me a grammar Nazi... go ahead...

I agree jsg. Other peeves for me include "I wanna axe you a question." The everpresent use of double negatives. And substituting "could" for "would."

Don't even get me started on "there", "they're" and "their". UGH.

I have to agree with JSG. I have read memos and reports from college educated (some with advanced degrees) managers who need to open the third grade primer again. It is more amazing since WORD and OUTLOOK will check spelling and grammar for you. It is also a shame that I had to use my funds to take business writing while completing my MBA, when we student should have these skills BEFORE entering college. It is a sad state.

As for the strange grammar rules. English is a strange combination of Celtic, German, and French with smatterings of other languages. It has new words entering all the time (Microprocessor, Semiconductor, Drive-by, etc.).

Still it is an amazingly adaptive language and has changed over the ages. Just go back and read newspaper stories during WWII and the Korean War and see how it reads differenly.

DON'T get me started on this - 'English' grammar and 'American' grammar has, or at least they appear to me to have, two different sets of rules! I know when I am typing on these boards I do not always spot or correct a typo. In my day job I have to be ultra- correct. Oh and it would possibly amaze some of you how few authors can actually string a grammatically correct sentence together. Currently we are using a free-lance PR person to help promote one of our titles and, though well educated, she still can't string a proper sentence together... Grrr

JSG.........can i aks you a question?

or is it....can i ax you a question?

you should see the little ones laugh when i cower and beg them not to AX me.

yes, they're all asleep through school...but it's "no child left behind" yew no.

teach for the test, and hell be damned if they learn anything else.

I must agree. but my point is the same, english is english and what colours it is the cultural influences that take part in it. english isnt just the king's english any longer, many nations speak it. whether aussie, english, american canadian etc. each group adds its own bits and labels to it. its not solely dictated by the dictionary. although moreso governed by the business scientific and governmental communities. if the veep doesnt possess grand diction, then i wouldnt question english. I'd certainly question human resources tho!


the real thing im wondering is..

with all the societal ills in the world today.

is linguistics worth getting your panties in a bunch over?

no JSG. I save the term Nazi for real special things. not just for soup and diction.

lol
cheers
Nigel.

All languages develope and change, MJ.

The curious thing is if anything that I , a stranger that learned english as a teen ager (not as a child) can read english of authors from the 17th century to these days.... actually I am often more perplexed by modern english: it shows that it is a language "ever constant in its changing".

I do think that word and office etc checking your spelling (often badly) while you type caused actually an involution in the writing skills of people. They just tend to think that it will be correct "anyway" and don´t bother to check.

Some plain bad writing is sometimes excused as experimental. Which makes me growl (in any language).

Another thing is, in "old times" grammar was really taught in schools. Now it isn´t (or seldom). At a certain point after ´68 someone decided that is was too "cohercitive" or some such and all sorts of learn-by-playing systems were invented to teach writing, reading etc. While I appreciate the concept I still think that some subjects were better taught in the old times.

I learnt latin the "old way" and never regretted it. I forgot everything of latin (never used it) but it helped enormously in learning other languages.
My husband belongs to the "no grammar" school of thought. He still speaks a very good german. But he is utterly unable to teach german to me because we have no common language to discuss... well - the language. I find it very sad.

Sorry I guess I went a bit off topic. But I love words, it hurts me to see them mistreated.

"huked en foniks wirked for me!"

I'm sorry.. hehehe I could resist, but why?.

and by the way. how do you describe geographical differences in English. local colloquialisms etc.

for instance, I find it interesting, that in Northern California...the term "All I can say" becomes "Alls I can say" the word "Ax" again and how about the perennial favourite "Ya'll"?

Geography and the spoken word, inflections and even semantics make a difference in how people use the language. and because of that, how easy is it to write it as you think it?

N.

Erm, "huked"?

There, he is going modern at me, lol.

Texting has a lot to answer for i.m.h.o. - plus automatic spell checkers. A friend's son went off to Brazil for a year and the e-mails he sent were almost illiterate, he was so used to having spell checker check his messages.

My grammar use in spoken English is different than that which I use in written English.

Snow, I 'think' Nigel is saying 'hooked on phonics' but he could be swearing too

Very intuitive of you GG .

I understand the ideals behind formal and informal use of languages. But in reality its just communication, if the point made in effective manner, why waste the energy and productivity on correcting it? sometimes translation has its own way of obfuscation.

oh and jsg. i like flexing neurons once in a while. good thread.

cheers
Nigel.

So, I send a press release about a new book out to the media with spelling and grammar errors... are they going to promote the book - nope... They want info they can lift from the page and use. Far to many people assume it is acceptable to use crap grammar - sorry, in my view it isn't! Let's look at someone submitting a CV - frankly if I am looking said CV and they have not written using correct grammar then 'bye, bye. I have dealt with book 'editors' who did not understand grammar, they had very short employment histories!
I have no idea how all this works in the States but in the UK whilst there is this whole trend to speak using 'esturine' English the written word is still considered to have a specific grammar - for which I for one am extremely thankful!