OK, here's a topic that's likely to have to some split opinions. Since we're new parents, we're delving into the topic of co-sleeping between Topless and myself, plus talking to our health care provider about it as well. If you're unfamiliar with what co-sleeping is, basically it's inviting your children into your bed and making it a "family" until the children migrate out on their own or you attempt to change it back to a parents only bed.

I'm pretty on the fence about this one. While I can see the merits of having the baby sleep with us and even as she becomes a child, I don't know that I'm ready to give up being alone with my wife in bed for the next 5-10 years (average guess). Now I do assume that we'd be bombarded by kids coming into the bed no matter whether we had them sleeping with us or not so that's not really the issue, it's the overnight portion of it.

Have any of you done co-sleeping with your kids? If so, what was your experience? If not, was ther a reason you didn't or was it just due to typical custom? We're not so much worried about the concern of smothering the baby, but just what long term effects this could have on our family both positive and negative.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Buckshot77,

Buck - there are innumerable reports that show it is dangerous to have your baby sleep in the marital bed with you, including being squashed and suffocated... will do a web search and put up some urls later.

As for having a toddler or older sleeping in the bed all I can say is we made it clear from the beginning to our son that his bed was where he slept ours was where we slept - sure come to us in the night if there were problems but not as a regular place to sleep. However, a colleague in her 40s 4 year old still sleeps in the same bedroom as her and her partner - though in a separate bed. It really is down to personal preference I guess - and where you plan on having sex!

GG, we were/are worried about the suffocating issue and brought it up with our midwife who advocates co-sleeping. Her response was that the studies are skewed in that while they take a cross sectional approach to the study, they don't show that most of the deaths occur in instances where the parents have some type of cause/effect relationship. It was her opinion that most of the deaths were related to outside factors that caused the parent to not realize they were suffocating the child such as smoking, drinking, drug use (prescription, over the couter, or illegal), and other factors that helped to decrease the awareness during sleep.

Her example was, as much rolling around as you do in your sleep, when was the last time you fell out of bed even though you don't have a railing on your bed? Your mind is aware of things in and around your bed even during sleep unless affected by outside influences such as listed above. In any case, that was her rebuttle to the issue of suffocation and while I can see the merits in it, I'm still on the fence.

As far as sexual encounters go (that was another big concern of mine), how often do you have sex while you're asleep or wake up in the middle of the night to have sex? It's a pretty rare occurence for us to wake up and have sex from a sound sleep. So really it only limits us to times where the child is in bed before we're asleep or shortly after we wake up in the morning and we want to be frisky. At that point, the baby does have her own room that she can be transferred to without much commotion. I guess it would come down to us setting boundaries as far as when she is/isn't allowed in the room with us and that she has her own bed for alternate use.

It's definitely a complicated set of circumstances.

Bug slept in the bed with us for his first six mionths. It was easier on everyone.

CJ sleeps in his playpen at the foot of the bed. Both situations work for us, it really just depends on your situation, how often kiddo wakes up at night to eat, and how many pillows and blankets you require to sleep.

I think your most important thing to consider is how you will balance your tine in bed as a family with your time in bed as a couple. Not that there's a whole lot of couple time right now...

~Ang

I'd rather have a situation where the child felt (a) Sleeping in his/her own room was normal, but felt welcomed by mom & dad occasionally; than (b) Sleeping with mom and dad was normal and being exiled to his/her room was lonely.

I think the first few months you do whatever works best for the child and is most convenient for the exhausted parents. A crib or bassinet that can be moved from the parents room to the child's room sounds appealing to me, because the child remains in a familiar bed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FlyGuy,

Oh oh oh, do I have thoughts on this topic!!!

At the end of the day that Morgan was born, my mom tucked the Rev and I into our bed and tucked Morgan into his cradle at the foot of our bed. Just as soon as everyone was settled and eveyone else had left, he started to choke up amnotic fluid. We looked at each other and didn't even have to say a word... having him at any more than and arm's length just wasn't going to fly so we tucked him in right between us. We found it VERY enjoyable to have our little Peanut all snuggled right there between us. He was a baby that really liked being swaddled up, so he'd lay there all still like a little burrito and we'd all be snug as bugs. Or course, we caught all kinds of crap from people for having our baby sleep with us so I did some research and here's what I found:
- Like Buck mentioned, the "baby being rolled over on" thing is caused by extra circumstances like drugs, etc. My neighbor does have a friend how rolled over on her baby and killed her, but the lady weighed over 300 pounds. Not a good candidate for co-sleeping. Here's the theory on that: 1. You don't fall off your bed do you? No, because your sub-conscious knows where the edge is. You'll know where the baby is too. 2. Do you think the baby is just going to lay there silent while its being squished? No! She's going to scream her head off.
- Dr. Harvey Carp, the "Happiest Baby on the Block" guy describes the 1st 3 months like the 4th trimester. Human babies are the only mammals that are still totally helpless within a week or so of birth, so his theory is to continue to create womb-like conditions for 3 more months. It seemed totally ridiculus to us to have this little creature who had just spent 9 months INSIDE it's mom, suddenly forced to sleep totally abandonded on it's own (especailly people who make the newborn sleep in it's own room! Augh!)
- Pretty much until the modern era, and still in most less developed countries, families co-sleep mostly out of necessity. However, it makes sense from an evolution perspective. Babies a programmed to make sure that conditions are still "ok." They wake up and cry to make sure they're not alone and still safe. If they cry and no one responds, that means "Crisis! I am alone! Mom and dad are missing and I am vulnerable!" Babies wake up a dozen times during their normal sleep cycle. If they wake up and can see/hear/smell/feel mom or dad, they feel secure and go back to sleep.

So back to our experience: we really enjoyed snuggling with Morgan together. It was also great for feeding. We have these little "chock blocks" that are designed to keep the baby from rolling that we used. We also put a changing pad underneath him so he didn't soil our bed. We still had plenty of sex. We'd just lay across the foot of the bed and the rocking of the bed usually put him to sleep. After about 3 months, Morgan was too big to swaddle and was takng up a lot of space, so we moved him to his cradle in ou room. At about 6 months he outgrew the cradle so we moved him to his crib in his room. The transitions were no problem at all. So just because you start out having the baby in bed with you, doesn't mean you have to end up with the kid still in bed with you 6 years later. We have Aidan in bed with us now, and are looking forward to a similar transition.

HOWEVER, like Celtic said, it depends on your situation. If you weigh 300 pounds or are on heavy duty drugs or thrash around a lot, then maybe it's not a good idea. My neighbor's husband thrashes a lot, so she bought the co-sleeping bed that attaches to her side of the bed side-car style. We are used to sharing the bed with cats and dogs, so we don't thrash.

Ok, I hope that made sense. I've had to type it distractedly with one hand while breastfeeding and watching Morgan!

I have to offer my thoughts, opinion, and experience as well.

I have two children, 9 and 14 - and neither of them sleep with us anymore, although they both started out that way, and it wasn't a problem to make that transition either.

When my 14 year old was born and he was placed in the bassinett, and when we got home the crib (he was born in a hospital but never left our room at all) I just looked at this tiny thing that had been in my all this time and couldn't imagine leaving him alone in the crib or cradle, away from the warmth and sounds he had been used to. I just couldn't understand how a such a radical change in environment could be could nurturing and loving for the baby, so for me it was a natural thing to take him with me into bed.

I might also add that it was the easiest thing in the beginning as well. When it was time to nurse in the middle of the night it was easy (much easier as the baby got bigger and nursed better) to just get him latched on and then doze while he ate. I didn't have to get out of bed. I was the only one in my birthing class that wasn't exhausted all the time and was getting enough sleep. It was the same when my daughter was born.

Foggy is absolutely correct that you develop a sense as to where the baby is. I never rolled over either of them, and neither did their father. Of course we never drank or took any medication that might cause drowsiness when they were in bed with us either. I made sure the baby couldn't roll on his or her back, or face down into the mattress. They always slept on their side, pulled up right next to me, usually facing away from me unless nursing.

As far as studies are concerned, at the time I read a study on how there was little to no incidences of SIDS in babies who slept with the mother and they believed it had something to do with the rhythm of the mother's heartbeat that the baby was used to hearing. This only convinced me that my babies were not going to be sleeping in a cold and lonely crib!

Once I started them on solid food, which wasn't until six months for one and eight months for the other, at which point they would have something more solid in their tummies then easily and quickly digested breast milk, I would put the baby in the crib in the beginning of the evening, and then when he or she would wake up in the middle of the night, my husband would get the baby and bring him/her to bed and the baby would nurse in bed with me and spend the rest of the night with me. I did this for a few months as well.

Finally, as they got older, closer to a year old, I did let them cry during the night when they woke up for their nighttime feeding. This only lasted two or three days before they began to sleep through the night (maybe four with my cranky daughter!!) It was hard and heartbreaking to let them cry, but I also didn't want problems getting them out of my bed when they were older.

In the first few months when the baby was in bed with us most of the time, at times we would put a sleeping baby in the bassinett or crib for a couple of hours so we could fool around, and then when baby woke up, bring them back to bed.

Hope this helps.

Buck - not sure if you read the 'what is the role of a husband' thread http://freddyandeddy.groupee.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/600100012/m/2321000701
Anything you guys decide to do now can have repurcussions on your marriage in 15/20 years time - so think hard about how you are going to give quality time to Topless for all those years when kiddo is in your bed so that when the little (by then big) kiddo flies the nest you two still have a serious relationship to share.
Though if you follow Foggy and Jem's suggestions this will just be for a short while - not for the next 5 + years

Here, here Jem! My thoughts too about the big lonely crib! Also on the dozing while feeding thing. I feel like I get plenty of sleep.

My findings on the SIDS thing was that Mom is so in tune to the baby's breathing rhythm that she'd wake up and check the baby whenever she sensed a changed.

Here's a link the to "chock blocks" we use: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A88JG...ance&s=baby&n=542338
There is actually a huge assortment of "sleep positioning" gear, but we found that anything else would take up too much space. We also have a Mission style headboard which isn't rated for baby head width issues, so we roll up a big towel so he has a "bumper" for his head. We also position him down so his head is level with our shoulders so there isn't any risk of him squishing his face in our pillows.

The biggest thing is to do what FEELS the most right and natural for YOU BOTH and YOUR BABY. We didn't plan to have Morgan sleep with us in the beginning, it just seemed like the right thing to do when the situation came up (like Jem's experience). For GG, it was most nautral for the kids to be in their own bed. For us it was natural to be in our bed for awhile, then transition out. For others it is natural for the kids to sleep with the parents for years. If you follow your parental instincts, you won't go wrong.

quote:

Here's a link the to "chock blocks" we use: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A88JG...ance&s=baby&n=542338
There is actually a huge assortment of "sleep positioning" gear, but we found that anything else would take up too much space. We also have a Mission style headboard which isn't rated for baby head width issues, so we roll up a big towel so he has a "bumper" for his head.

I used a rolled up towel, or even a pillow, but the pillow was very firm and never placed at face level.

quote:

We also position him down so his head is level with our shoulders so there isn't any risk of him squishing his face in our pillows.

This would be boob level I believe! The perfect nursing in bed position I liked to pull the baby in tight against my tummy, usually my tummy to his back, with him on his side, and place an arm around him. I found I would wake up right away when they started to stir.

quote:

The biggest thing is to do what FEELS the most right and natural for YOU BOTH and YOUR BABY. We didn't plan to have Morgan sleep with us in the beginning, it just seemed like the right thing to do when the situation came up (like Jem's experience). For GG, it was most nautral for the kids to be in their own bed. For us it was natural to be in our bed for awhile, then transition out. For others it is natural for the kids to sleep with the parents for years. If you follow your parental instincts, you won't go wrong.

That is true, if you are uncomfortable with having the baby in your bed, and the worry stresses you out, then it is not worth it as it will not be a good experience. For me, I was more stressed about not having the baby in my bed. I couldn't sleep with worry if they weren't with me. Having them in bed seemed most comfortable and natural, but that was my thing.

I have an Arms Reach co-sleeper (the mini version) and I love it! The baby is right next to me, I dont have to get out of bed to feed it or to change it's diapers, since the diapers and wipes are in the pockets.

Then again, we only had a full-size bed, and there really wasn't room for the baby and us both!

For me, it had all of the advantages of the "family bed", without any of the worry.

I will forever back having children sleep on their own. Ignoring the safety issues, my experience has been nothing but awesome with having my 2 1/2 year old daughter ALWAYS sleep in her own bed.

She always has known that she sleeps in her own bed and that it is hers. She knows what she is to do once she is there and that it's all business. I have even had her, before age of two, say, "Daddy, I'm sleepy. I want to go to bed." and march herself upstairs, climb into bed, and go to sleep.

I think without that boundary, she wouldn't have so quickly made that connection.

Also though, it gives me the alone time that I need to just unwind alone in my room. Whether its reading or whatever its a bit of my time.

quote:

Originally posted by Foggy Turtle:
If you follow your parental instincts, you won't go wrong.

Another amen to that one! Our oldest was a very cuddly baby and spent many a night with us. After he was about 3 months old or so, I made it a pretty standard practice to be sure that he started out in his own bed (even though I rocked him until he was asleep to put him there), but if he woke up then we had no problem letting him crash with us. Our younger son isn't so cuddly and is also a kicker, so the rules were different for him.

It just depends on the kid and how you on how you guys feel about it. If you love your baby (which obviously you do) and if you love each other and have really good communication (which again you obviously do) then I say take it one night at a time and just do whatever feels the healthiest for all of you.

Mmmm, warm little bundles! I kind of miss that...

S

Getting up to our daughter a zillion times a night in the first couple of weeks, certainly tempted me to try some co-sleeping. I didn't though, and there were some good (for me) reasons.

Firstly, she was in a cot in our room for the first three days after getting home, and MAN was she noisy! Neither of us got any sleep at all.

Secondly, it does put a strain on intimacy. Not just sex, but lots of the cuddling and snuggling in the evening or morning before getting up. You don't get so much to just hang out in bed together and talk or watch TV (or porn) or read a book. As your baby starts sleeping through the night, there's the whole evening of them sleeping alone in the bed, then you have to sneak in when you're ready, and don't turn on that light, and shhhhhh!

Thirdly, there's the leaking nappy issue, especially if you're using disposables. I don't know about you guys, but when we used disposables, we got at least one leak every day or two. We now use an excellent modern cloth nappy system (100% cloth since 8 weeks old), and our daughter's cot is a no-leak zone. Of course, many people who are into co-sleeping are also doing the full attachment parenting philosophy and elimination communication (no nappies at all!). I can't help but expect that there's going to be a few whoopsies in the family bed.

Not to mention vomiting from childhood ailments or reflux or just crying till they puke. It's much easier to wash cot sheets and baby bedding.

There's also the SIDS risk from sleeping on an old mattress. There is a certain doctor called Dr Sprott who has done a lot of research into SIDS and SIDS prevention you can read about it here: http://www.cotlife2000.com/ Anyhoo, we made the decision to wrap the cot mattress to prevent cot death (no baby has ever died of SIDS sleeping on a properly wrapped mattress), and it's a lot easier to get the proper bag for a cot mattress than a king-size one. Besides which, our greater weights would make the darn thing rustle more. Also, I'd have to give up my wool underlay, and I'd hate to do that. Incidentally, if you read that site, and are concerned that his research is only to sell the mattress covers - keep in mind they cost about US$10. And then think about the expensive baby monitors you can buy for US$150+. And think about how no baby has ever died on a wrapped mattress. It's nice to have complete peace of mind and only pay $10 for it.

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Originally posted by The_Prickly_Pair:
It just depends on the kid and how you on how you guys feel about it. If you love your baby (which obviously you do) and if you love each other and have really good communication (which again you obviously do) then I say take it one night at a time and just do whatever feels the healthiest for all of you.

Also a very good point! We BOTH agreed that the co-sleeping was what we wanted to do and so it was also easy to work "our love" life around our new bed partner since we were both on board. So whatever you decide, you both have to be ok with it.