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Picture of Bad_IDA
Posted
Just curious how you guys (and girls) break through your workout walls. Thanks to getting my ass in the gym 5-6 days/week and to a couple of supplements (EAS Mas Factor and EAS Phosphagen) I've built up from 165lbs to 175-180 (which is approaching my goal) and am starting to finally see some results. However over the last couple of weeks I've seemed to have hit a wall. I've tried changing up my workout routine, but that hasn't seemed to work. Maybe I need to try to increase my calorie intake. Anyway, any ideas? Thanks!


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
smut apprentice & dirty New England chick
Picture of Phoenix
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Just a suggestion, but have you tried a personal trainer? They may know how to break through your workout wall and get you where you want to go, even if you just sign up for one session. I'd look into it, I had one for a while when we lived elsewhere, and they were really helpful.

Sorry it's not exactly the answer you were looking for, but I'm sure there are other more knowledgable folks out there to help answer Smiler


*~When I'm good, I'm very good. But when I'm bad I'm better. -Mae West~*
 
Posts: 1249 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 11 January 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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When you say you've changed your workout, how do you mean??
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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Jay, what I mean by changing up the workout is disrupting the routine. Changing up exercises and increasing the number of sets.

Phoenix, I've thought about getting a personal trainer. Particularly because I'm certainly no expert. However unfortunately I exercise at a college and am not sure where to find a personal trainer in my area (it's a small town in a rural part of the state). And I've always wondered about the cost-benefit ratio of doing so. I'll do some digging. I'm sure it can't hurt.


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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Take a break? *gasp!* I actually thought I'd have to take a lengthy break now that it's warmer (I usually golf in place of hitting the gym because the outdoors are far too tempting) but I've been able to get a good workout in over my lunch hour, so now I can do both. But I recently had to travel for work and was unable to get in the gym for 3 days (which drove me nuts) and I noticed the same thing when I got back in. I think you're right in that I've hit a plateau, like you did. How did you pass it? Did you just take a week off?


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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If you want to know how to break your wall, here's what got me through mine awhile back......

You need to shock your muscles- replacing a bench press with a dumbbell press and going to failure won't work for some people; You need to find a new set of exercises that your body has never felt, and will hit it like a ton of bricks.

1) Take a week off, let your body get fully rested and recovered (and remove any effects of possible overtraining), and use the time to plan the hardest 4 weeks of your fitness life. If you ABSOLUTELY cannot take a week off, do only the most minor of cardio. NOTHING ELSE.

2) Your goal these 4 weeks is simple; To turn your muscles into muscular goo, and then let them recover for a week. It will suck, it will require effort and focus, and you will ache at the end of every day, but it will break you through your plateau, and it doesn't require a personal trainer.

3) I'm assuming the following:

- you're in good overall shape
- You don't have a heart condition, or any serious medical condition (This plan WILL stress your body)
- You have the following, and know how to use them:
- Protein powder
- Good solid multivitamin
- Amino Acid pak
- Relatively clean diet

- You currently work one body part per day of the week (abs/core excluded). If you don't, start: That will likely break your wall for you.
- You know your way around a gym (i.e. the basics of proper exercise, including how to do most of the basic exercises properly)
- You have a decent tolerance for pain, or else want to break your wall bad enough you're willing to develop one.
- You're willing to learn

4) You're at a college, right?? Colleges have pools, and swimming laps is the best possible exercise one can do. If you don't swim, start: You'll build muscles in places you didn't think muscles could be built. Its also the best cardio exercise in existence.

5) Do your homework; The biggest myth about trainers is that you NEED one in order to be all that you can be. If you're not a fitness newbie, you know your body, and your limits, all a trainer becomes is an encyclopedia of exercise methods and exercises, all of which can be learned with $15 in photocopy charges at your local library, and some time well spent.

During your week of rest, go to the library and find a couple of books; Namely, Joe Weider's "Ultimate Bodybuilding", a book on medicine ball training and core development (Try authors Peter Twist or Paul Chek), and, if you can, a book about a thing called a BOSU.

These are the building blocks. Use the Weider book to find new and different exercises for mass building- 3 per body part. We'll call these MASS BUILDERS. If you can't find 3 new ones, don't be afraid to use familiar ones- its not going to matter, anyway, but its always good to change things up. Big Grin

Use these as exercise #1-3 in your all-out assualt on your muscles. These are low reps, high wieght, normally using the 10-8-8-6-4 rep range. Make sure you know your limits, and ALWAYS use a good spotter, espcially with the heavier weight. The idea is to use enough weight so that you basically max yourself out at the end of each set. (i.e. on the 10 rep of the set, you'll basically have nothing left for another set when you lift for the 10th time). If you max out before you're done, make sure the spotter knows to assist you and give just enough support to let you finish the rep. This is called a FORCED REP. You push for all you're worth, and he makes sure you finish.

The last two exercises for each part of the body are the killers- they're with lighter weight, but they're designed to make you hurt. Weighted tricep Dips, BOSU presses, front and lateral raises, Medicine ball throws, 2-armed high-pulley side-curls, and the pectoral fly are all great examples of these types of exercises. Do your homework, and find what is best for you.

You do these either to failure, or else in the 12-15 rep range, depending on the exercise. (i.e. when you can select the amount of weight used, follow the same idea as above- you choose just enough weight so that you have to give everything you've got to finish rep 12 or 15. For medicine balls or using the BOSU, go to failure)

For these exercises, go 4 sets of 12-12-15-15, or three sets to failure. Remember, proper form is always key.

Still with me?? Good. Now it gets fun.

4) Supersets

If you're not familiar with this, its the idea that combining opposing muscle groups into a single set (or SUPERSET) will amp up the heartrate (for more fat-burning) bloodflow to the muscles (the pump) and the amount of muscle degeneration, thereby allowing for greater growth during the recovery phase, so long as you eat right.

Simply, you exercise one muscle, then IMMEDIATELY (no rest) move to the next muscle. Its a helluva pump, and its a proven plateau-breaker.

It would look something like this:

Say your Monday is chest day. Now, its chest AND back:

You'd do one set of chest exercise (ex: bench press), and then IMMEDIATELY go and do a set of back exercises (ex: pull-ups). Then you rest for 100-120 seconds. Then you do it again, following the reps/sets pattern above. Do your 10 SUPERSETS (5 per part combined together), then move on to the next exercise. Do so until you complete your day's workload.

It will suck. The next day, you WILL hurt. You will likely whine, and perhaps even cry.

But in a month, when you're done and you take a week off (because you will have earned it) you'll have broken your plateau, and you'll be stronger, quicker and bigger. THEN, go back to what you were doing before. If you ever hit another wall, this workout idea will always be there.

Breakdown of supersets:

Day #1: Chest/Back
Day 2: REST
Day #3: Legs/Abs
Day #4: Biceps/Triceps
Day #5: REST
Day #6: Shoulders/Traps
Day #7: Abs/Forearms


Start every day with stretching- Its extremely important, then some light (15-20 minute) cardio to get the heart pumping. Do your workout, then hit the pool; The swimming will help you burn off the lactic acid that will be pooled in your muscles, which will lesson the discomfort when you wake up the next morning.

Take 20 grams of protein before you go, and 40 grams (or more when you get done. Take everything else as directed.

And remember, KNOW YOUR LIMITS. Use the spotter- don't do this unless there's someone there that can help, and help properly. And understand that form- not ego- comes first in a gym. Its not about how much you can lift, its about how much you can LIFT RIGHT.

Have fun, and I hope this helps. Big Grin
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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Jay,

That sounds like damn good advice. Just a bit of background:

-All of your assumptions were correct, with the exception of an amino acid pak. Can you describe the importance of one?

-My normal training regimen is 12-15 min. cardio followed by bi/tri (mon.), legs (tues.), chest/back (wed.), hard cardio or racquetball (thurs.), shoulders/traps/abs (fri.). Golf after work on the days that are nice and rest on the weekend. I do sets of 10-8-8-6 to failure. However I typically finish one muscle group before moving on to the next.

SO, where does this leave me on your plateau-breaking plan? If I understand correctly, I need to rest for the next week (which will SUCK!), choose three new exercises for each muscle group and superset them. After this I'll THEN do two new lighter weight supersets with increased reps to failure. Do you suggest increasing the weight for each set of these? How close am I to what you're recommending?

I'll continue to do my same program (chest/back, bi/tri, etc.), but instead of finishing one muscle group before moving on to the next I'll be supersetting everything.

We do have a pool, though it's going to be difficult to lift and then swim as I lift over my lunch hour so I can golf after work. What I'll probably have to do is substitute swimming for golf on rainy/windy days.

I'll see if I can't use the 'net to find me some new exercises.

Thanks Rex, I'll be sure to check those out.


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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1) Amino Acids are essentially the middleman of muscle building, growth, rest, and repair. Protein helps mucles grow, proper nutrition and rest improves the process, and the aminos make sure everything runs at it maximumj efficiency. Many of the essential amino acids can be found through a balanced diet, but there are some that are difficult to find unless you eat some rather weird items. A good multivitamin will have most of them, but you can find amino acid supplements at any nutrition center. I've used MVP labs (http://www.mvpnutrition.com/PROWHEYAMINO.html) before, with good results, but I'm taking Universal's Animal Pak training vitamin currently, which covers most of the bases.

Bring your chest/back day to Monday, and slide your arms to Wednessday. The arms are by far the most fun to superset because the pump is incredible, but the chest/back and legs days will take the most out of you, so do them early in the week. You'll thank me later.

You're currently doing 4 sets per part. If you call the first three supersets "mass builders", and the last two supersets "conditioning", it makes things easier to understand.

For the 3 "mass building" supersets that you do, bring the sets up to 5. You're trying to tax the muscles to their limits, which means you basically have to destroy the large muscle fibres every day to do it, and let them rebuild themselves stronger. Your muscles have gotten so used to the standard routine that even changing the exercises and reps alone won't be enough to shock them into more growth. Ripping the fibres to shreds and letting them heal up will get you the results, and the 7 day rest between total tissue destruction means you'll avoid overtraining. For the last two supersets in the day- the Conditioning" exercises, you can use only 4 sets; The idea of those is to destroy the fast-twitching fibres in your muscles, which means light weight, high reps, and perfect form. You should be unable to lift another rep every time you're done, which means increasing the weight is unnecssary- the fatigue will take care of the difficulty levels.

Your starting cardio is fine- its simply to get the blood flowing- and the racquetball will tax you enough. However, avoid doing the hard cardio before lifting- It will stunt your natural GH (growth hormone) output, which means less potential development. If you're going to go hard, do the cardio either after you lift, or else after work.

You're with me so far- I think. To make sure, here's a sample day:

Day 1: Chest and Back

Superset 1- Mass builder

Cycle 1
Bench Press (15 reps)
Weighted Pull-up (15 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 2
Bench Press (10 reps)
Weighted Pull-up (10 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 3
Bench Press (8 reps)
Weighted Pull-up (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 4
Bench Press (8 reps)
Weighted Pull-up (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 5
Bench Press (6 reps)
Weighted Pull-up (6 reps)
Rest (180 seconds)

Superset 2- Mass Builder

Cycle 1
Incline Bench Press (15 reps)
T-Bar Row (15 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 2
Incline Press (10 reps)
T-Bar Row (10 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 3
Incline Press (8 reps)
T-bar Row (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 4
Incline Press (8 reps)
T-bar Row (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 5
Incline Press (6 reps)
T-Bar Row (6 reps)
Rest (180 seconds)

Superset 3- Mass Builder

Cycle 1
Decline Bench Press (15 reps)
Seated Row (15 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 2
Decline Press (10 reps)
Seated Row (10 reps)
Rest (90 seconds)

Cycle 3
Decline Press (8 reps)
Seated Row (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 4
Decline Press (8 reps)
Seated Row (8 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Cycle 5
Decline Press (6 reps)
Seated Row (6 reps)
Rest (180 seconds)

Superset 4- Conditioning

Cycle 1
Incline Fly (15 reps)
Close-grip pulldown (15 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 2
Incline Fly (15 reps)
Close-grip pulldown (15 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 3
Incline Fly (12 reps)
Close-grip pulldown (12 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 4
Incline Fly (12 reps)
Close-grip pulldown (12 reps)
Rest (120 seconds)

Superset 5- Conditioning

Cycle 1
BOSU Pushup (to failure)
Reverse pull-up (15 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 2
BOSU Pushup (to failure)
Reverse pull-up (15 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 3
BOSU pushup (to failure)
Reverse pull-up (12 reps)
Rest (60 seconds)

Cycle 4
BOSU pushup (to failure)
Reverse pull-up (12 reps)
If you can still stand, you're done lifting for the day :-)

Since you're lfiting on your lunch, this will condense your program to the point where you may, by week four, have time for a quick set of laps, depending on how long your lunch is. The good news is, depending on your current level of fitness, you may not need the cardio every day. It sounds like you're fairly active, so you may be able to let the after work/after lifting cardio slide.

For the first week, if you do this right, you may not have the energy to swim, anyway. Big Grin
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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Thanks Jay. This helps clarify things. I'm on my last day of rest before beginning to hit it HARD. And I only have an hour to be in and out over my lunch. It seems as though you're in favor of antagonist pair supersets over same muscle group supersets. Any particular reason? And I just realized this workout is going to kick my ass. I'm looking forward to it. Though chances are either as I'm doing it or the day after I will be uttering "ow...shit...fucking Jay."


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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LOL.....Working Antagonistic muscle groups (i.e. opposite ones to those you're working) allow you to complete the required steps with the proper weight without running out of energy before hand. If you work two muscle groups that interact with each other (say, chest and tri's) you'll blow yourself out before you have a chance to break down the muscles, which can lead to failure to break your wall, or possibly even injury.

This way, you're not wasting your energy using the same muscles over and over and over- using the same muscle groups for supersets mean you're using the same muscles- either as primary or secondary- for EVERY SINGLE EXERCISE. If you do this, you'll hurt, but you won't gain; You'll simply be overtraining the muscles, and stunting growth.

This way, you allow your muscles a wee bit of rest in between the sets- not enough to let them fully recover, but enough to keep you from putting your muscles into a danger zone.

Hope this helps- Have fun. Big Grin
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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IDA,


Any progress reports??

I'm dying to hear how its going. Big Grin
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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Well, I HAVE cursed your name at least once if that's what you're wondering. I'm a bit more sore the next day (which is good), though I'd like to go two more weeks with this program before going back to my other routine. One of the biggest challenges was bumping up to 15 reps for the first set, and extending the sets by one. I'm thinking about mixing it up and superset each muscle group for the last two weeks instead of doing alternating supersets. Unfortunately I don't have time for swimming or as much cardio as I'd like.

Once I get back to my regular program I should be able to see if I jumped weight (which I hope I did). Right now it's difficult to tell.

Any more advice?


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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Go another two weeks if you have to- It won't hurt, that's for sure.

Be warned- If you superset each muscle group (targeting the same muscle group for both exercises in the superset) you run a serious risk of over-training, which can stunt growth and increase the risk of injury. If you do go this route, be VERY careful, and note that it wouldn't be recommended by any sane fitness expert.

Make sure you're going to the point where a spotter has to force rep your last rep or three, especially on later sets. That way, you're constantly pushing your body to take you to new heights. The additional sets might be enough to break your plateau on their own if its pushing you hard, but working to the point of forced reps just adds a level of insurance.

Plus, the pump is superb.

Just make sure the guy spotting knows what he/she is doing.
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Two sweethearts and the summerwind"
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Now, that type of an image is definitely few and far between in this day-n-age...

~Kathy~
 
Posts: 702 | Location: London, Canada | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Bad_IDA
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I don't think it's fair for a guy that age to be stronger than me. Also, I don't think it's fair that Will Smith's eight-year-old son is cooler than I am.

Just a quick update: I'm going to make today the last day of supersets (for now). If I can, I might take a week off and then resume my old program. Hopefully I've broken through my plateau, though I'm skeptical about it. The good news is I'm definately starting to see some gains in the mirror, and others have been noticing. My weight has been fluxuating between 182 (highest) and 169 (lowest) with minimal changes to diet. So that's pretty weird. I just orderd some Animal Pak and figured I'd give them a try as I just ran out of my other multi-vitamin and am still on an EAS Mass Factor/phosphagen combo. I might start increasing my protein intake afer I start again as I'm only consuming one shake (52g of protein) per day.

Although I'm thinking about changing up my regiment. I'm curious what you guys do. I usually go for four sets (10-8-8-6) with increasing weight, though might keep it at five sets where I am now. I haven't decided yet. I suppose it matters how much time I have.

Jay, feeling any better?


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"I hope there's no bright light when we die. I'd hate to go through eternity squinting."
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 19 September 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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